Top rope vs auto belay reddit We break it down with this guide to belaying and climbing on the sharp end. What this means is that if your second/follower falls, the rope will bind in the device on its own. Think of this differently. Overly Enthusiastic Belaying? Anyone have thoughts on belaying that might be helping too much with a climb? I've been climbing (mostly indoor top rope) for about two months, but I don't have a steady belay partner or group so I'm mostly on autobelay. 8 - 5. Better for lead belay. So, what's the difference between lead climbing vs top rope climbing? Below, we’ve compiled an in-depth guide to the five key differences between lead climbing vs top rope climbing. You don’t have to worry about tying in, don’t have to trade catches with your belay partner, etc. Also use better judgment, and test the belay before reaching the top, like with any climbing gear if it doesn't feel right don't use it. But I usually rappel on 11 mm BlueWater II static rope, and such a large tough rope can jamb if this lock method is used while the device is weighted. i didn't buy it for that purpose or anything, but i had some twisters and some autolockers and i put the twisters on my slings for going in direct and used autos for belaying. IMO, this is best practice. So, what’s the difference between top roping and lead climbing? Top roping you’re supported from above, while lead climbing you’re always above your rope. they are quick, easy, and the auto lock is nice so you dont have to worry about forgetting to screw it closed (although you should obviously ALWAYS check your belay/rap biner to make sure it is locked). I usually ask if they have a finishing knot requirement as I tie in. We first responded by removing our Perfect Descent auto belays (Perfect Descent was a defendant in The belay point for a top rope can be either anchored to the groud or not (normally is) but for leading the belay point should not be anchored as this gives the climber a softer fall. What’s interesting I tie in to the tie-in loops when leading or toproping. This is nice because with the GriGri, the only time I'm really worried about a new climber making a mistake is during lowering. What are some of the issues, pros, and cons of the different methods of locking a figure 8 or ATC while on a free hanging rappel? I know the most common way to lock an 8 is to simply cross the brake line over in a half lock. I really liked the Grigri for top roping. This lawsuit really amped up the conversation. Setting up a secure top rope anchor is vital. It's good because the black cover is an easy visual check that krab is correct and also removes any risk of the screw gate working undone. By keeping the rope taught and the micro traxion oriented upright the rope feeds through the devices seamlessly. I usually get those because my dog chews through the webbing eventually. Then, when you reach the top (or fall), it gently lowers you to the ground. The Micros I save for SUPER thin half and twin ropes. A bit on the side of your rant, but have you tried using geometric assisted breaking belay device as e. However, the most I always see the GriGri being compared to ATC-style belay devices and the GriGri being crowned as the safest device available for sport climbing. Pictures: Simple overview sketch The GigaJule is assisted belay when he wants, standard tuber when he doesn’t, doesn’t freeze up, can be used for positioning on a fixed rope for top rope anchors, and as a progress capture device/ guide mode belay device. EDIT: yes, it does look like this was a fixed gear failure somewhere in the system, but that's the exception, not the rule, and I'll be stunned if it was the auto-belay itself and not rope, webbing, lanyard, or metal (bolts, caribiners, etc). 2024 Climb Guide Harnesses, Ropes, Pro, Pads, Shoes & More Explore I like to lead belay with the Mammut Smart, top rope belay with the GriGri and I keep an ATC with an auto-locking biner on my harness when I'm climbing outside for rappelling. That’s why bouldering is more approachable to beginners. At least that way they might feel more confident knowing they have a top rope backup. And almost all of these injuries are less serious than injuries from climbing on top rope, lead, or auto belay. This creates a continuous loop that protects the climber in case of a fall. Jan 15, 2024 · Statistically speaking, the vast majority of auto-belay users leave our gyms unscathed. 12. The anchor, which is a technical climbing term for a secure attachment of the rope to the rock, usually at the top of the route. 5 weeks in July for an event and visiting friends (lived there 15 years ago). New to climbing with a harness : r/climbing Go to climbing r/climbing r/climbing We have a decent amount of auto belay set up going up to 5. Jul 29, 2024 · In fact, even if you’ve only ever known the “new way” of Grigri belaying, the Neox takes rope handling up a notch thanks to its rapid feeding and butter-smooth catches. Prefer lowering top rope on ATC as well, gives me a more direct control (the GriGri handle is pretty sensitive). Why is this? Isn't top rope a little safer, as there basically aren't falls? Nov 27, 2023 · Top rope climbing, as I mentioned above, is a climbing style in which you ascend a route while attached to a rope, which is then anchored at the top of the climbing surface. BD Pilot or Edelrid Jul2? I’m using the latter and I love it, it’s very intuitive feels almost like belaying with atc, I couldn’t recommend it more. The auto-belay itself is safer than the webbing and rope that comprise the rest of the system. Above the belay device you are putting your entire load onto the prussic. What if I fall? With an attentive belay, a top rope climber who falls should never fall more than a metre or so. They do have ways you can meet people to top rope/lead climb. It automatically picks up slack as you climb and provides a controlled descent when you fall or reach the top. He still hates it and realizes he'd burn the shit out of his hands if the auto belay were to fail and he attempted to catch himself, but it helps mentally even just a tiny bit. The device enables a climber to ascend indoor routes on a top rope but without the need for a human belaying partner. I've seen fall arrest devices for roofers etc. Read our review to see why it's our climbing editor's first choice. Are there any cheaper alternatives to an auto-belay which would let me practice climb when I'm by myself? Those things cost thousands. Why do so many people not like auto-belays in gyms? Personally find them super convenient for training. Thanks for any info! Sep 2, 2015 · In a nutshell: Top rope and lead climbing are methods for protecting a climb. I check it anyway, but if i forgot, i would want an auto locker. If you make sure to thread the biner correctly when top belaying, there are no safety issues. I’m sure it takes some getting used to but I felt like the rope was pulling/holding me up some, so it wasn’t as good of a work out as bouldering. 10 or higher), and it’s extremely efficient to run laps on the autobelays to build endurance. May 28, 2021 · An auto belay is a device that allows you to climb roped routes in a gym without a human belayer. Top Rope: Shown in the photo above, top rope climbing requires prior knowledge and experience of the follow through figure 8 knot and the GriGri belay device, which are attached to all top ropes in our facilities. They are noticeable by a long tethered lanyard attached by an industrial carabiner to a triangular and brightly colored mat Jan 4, 2024 · Top rope climbing is a beginner-friendly style of climbing where the rope runs from the climber's harness up to an anchor system at the top of the route and back down to the belayer on the ground. Putting the 'biner through both the leg loop and the waist loop would tri-load the 'biner, and placing it only through the waist loop could risk a back injury. Is there anything that's relatively easy to reach by public transport? I'm looking for a place with reasonable auto-belay facilities Sep 21, 2023 · After months of testing, our avid rock climber and resident expert found the best climbing belay devices of 2023. The real distinction between top roping and lead climbing is the belay system used. Any hidden gems?? Also, are memberships not a thing? A lot of places seem to be day passes only. What is the practical difference between a harness with a belay loop vs. I'm pretty sure that there's nothing wrong with using a Gri-Gri for lead, as you can see it in use in most Sharma and Ondra videos :) I prefer the ATC myself, as I'm not comfortable with using the GriGri for belaying a lead climber. Hey guys, I recently signed up for a top rope / auto belay carnival style comp. Jul 11, 2025 · We test climbing belay devices for all types of climbing. I tied a prussik around the rope, then tie that into my backpack. My gym has six, each with two routes (one in 5. My friend always tries to stick to auto belay routes that are next to regular top ropes so that he can hold the top rope on the way down. This is sometimes called a static vs dynamic belay point, top rope is static, leading is dynamic. You are mostly passive rappeling: you slide down along the rope, using your rappelling device (same as a belaying device, but used differently), the belayer is not involved, you are the active party. The GriGri + is a belay device best suited for very new climbers belaying on top rope. Kids under 14 require adult assistance and supervision on autobelays. You'll likely see them in most, if not all, indoor rock climbing gyms with top-rope walls. The Harbor Freight auto belay is a little cheaper. The rope that connects the climber to the belayer. I'm based in grad student digs near Victoria. a harness with two tie-in loops? Does the latter have disadvantages with regards to abrasion or longetivity? I often see that ultralight ski mountainering harnesses do only have those tie-in loops instead of one belay loop. It functions just like a GriGri, but it has a panic handle. ATC: Which Device is Best for You? Top Rope Climbing and Belaying Lead Climbing and Belaying Multi-Pitch Climbing and Belaying Rappelling Beginner vs. I pretty much never use a rope fatter than 9. An auto belay device provides climbers with a safe, simple, and accessible option for climbing routes that would usually require a rope, without the need for a belay partner. IF I was to clip in with two carabiners for toproping it would be on the belay loop, not the rope tie in points. I learned to top rope and lead belay on a figure 8. Lead Climbing vs Top Rope Every gym I’ve climbed at in the US has required a belay test (for top rope and lead. Like the harder moves to me are easier than bouldering because it’s less scary mentally. Either is fine really, in canyoning it's not common to extend your belay plate right? Step 7: Using a regular belay plate (ATC / Verso) the leader belays the second in a top rope fashion with the top rope coming from the second masterpoint that was created on the anchor. In my groups I'm the one who sets anchors (I know knots and how to dress them). We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Aug 13, 2024 · The Edelrid Pinch is a much-anticipated assisted braking belay device. The fact that you wrote all of this on Reddit and explained everything clearly means you are already intelligent and diligent enough to properly belay your kid on top rope in the gym. This is a feature available in the Petzl Reverso line as well, but the key difference is that the carabiner eyelet is oriented perpendicular to that of the Reverso. Same as a grigri for toprope belaying and belaying from above. Dec 27, 2022 · Just know that trad climbing takes incredible knowledge and experience and is only performed outside. New harness advice: Image is the user guide for my new harness, and I've been told the opposite in the past i. Auto belay "TruBlue Speed" auto-belay fixed at the top of an indoor climbing route An auto belay (or autobelay) is a mechanical device for belaying in indoor climbing walls, in both training and competition climbing formats. In defence of the belay master we use it when we're clipping kids into the rope for top roping for speed. Most injuries that take place in indoor climbing gyms are a result of bouldering. I find I can do harder grades top roping because I’m more comfortable making big moves with the rope attached, assuming my belay partner has all the slack. I've seen the Edelrid Pinch and love the fact that you can clip it directly to the belay loop. Bouldering remains the most dangerous form of rock climbing for most indoor rock climbing gyms. But which one is the best? Belay devices come in three different categories — tube-style, auto-blocking devices, and assisted braking devices — and our expert climbing testers have put in hundreds of hours belaying and testing all three kinds. We have 90 minutes to climb as many routes as possible, and collect… I went back to climbing a month after my injury, pre-surgery, and had a couple of ultra painful moments doing very innocuous toe and heel hooks on top rope, that I didn’t think would be an issue. Reply reply ppablo787 • Hi! Just started climbing, and I've only done top rope and bouldering so far, but in all of the professional climbing I've seen, everyone is climbing lead. I avoid repelling and use runners to tether when belaying (TR). The use of auto belays has been a hotly debated topic in the indoor climbing industry for the last 10 years. However, the thrill and excitement of lead climbing, with its key differences such as rope placement, gear requirements, physical demands, fall distance, and belay technique, can make the Feb 12, 2018 · You want to go climb at an indoor climbing gym but aren't sure what you need to know. The belayer uses the belay device to best top rope/auto belay climbing hi! i might be moving to pittsburgh for school soon and was wondering what gyms are the best for top rope climbing. I belay with a Jul and I’m surprised by the fact that more people don’t belay with them, as they feel much more like an ATC (the device I learned to belay with) and are simpler overall. A locking carabiner takes the place of the belay loop and attaches to the harness via the same two points that cradle the rope when you tie in. So when a climber is on belay, the belay carabiner is loaded at three points--two on the harness and one where the rope slides. Similar to when I give a lead belay without glasses I am constantly taking note of my climber, my rope and my position relative to the environment. For a gym, especially top-rope, new climbers tying the wrong knot or not finishing it up might be an even bigger safety concern though. Just make sure you always 100% double and triple check you’re clipped in properly before climbing and you’ll be fine. Every time I'm belayed by a human, it feels like cheating. An auto belay system also employs a safety rope; however, no partner is involved. Just wondering what everyone else’s Feb 1, 2022 · Transitioning from top roping to lead climbing can be a big challenge. 9 range, one 5. I'm sure the instructions that come with it include all sorts of CYA lawyer stuff, however. When a climber falls, having a solid top rope anchor is literally a matter of life and death. This is generally not an issue for top rope, especially if your gym wraps the rope around the pipe at the top of the route, as most do. I have seen opinions on how the Grigri is annoying to feed rope out with, but that the over-engineering means that even if I get pulled into the wall while belaying a heavier climber, or hit with a falling rock or something while belaying outside, I have that extra layer of locking/safety that passive devices like the Jul2 might not. I split my time evenly mainly because my daughter is on team, and wants to go to all 4 days of practice a week. Annual or bi-annual inspections, as required by the manufacturer, involve disassembly, inspection, repair, testing and recertification of the unit. Advanced Climbers Gym vs. 2 though. I like lead better, but it’s easier to do the auto belay most of the time. If you plan on rope climbing, learn what to expect to pass a belay test. Feb 6, 2023 · Today, the auto belay devices that you see in many rock climbing gyms are made for climbers and have stringent safety standards. Apr 24, 2023 · An auto belay is a mechanical device that is used in rock climbing to provide an effective and efficient way of lowering a climber to the ground after they have completed their climb. If you’ve got an auto belay system then your already in a great spot. i use the autobelays primarily for this purpose and it works great If you clip in with a carabiner, you should always use the belay loop, and never leg and waist loops. . Of course it takes some short time to get use to, but after few sessions you can give rope smoothly and quickly. Worse than a grigri as a progress capture for ascending a fixed line or as a grillion. I’m wondering if practicing on an auto belay (since I have no climbing friends) to build my endurance/stamina and physical strength would be helpful to transition to bouldering? The idea is to have the psychological safety of the auto belay while I get into somewhat decent shape to start bouldering by myself. I wasn’t a huge fan. This prevents slack from building up in the rope, no need to stop and feed it through the devices. See a fair amount of anti auto-belay comments. Curious if anyone knows of any decent top-rope gyms in Tokyo? I know bouldering gyms are a dime a dozen (Apparently B-Pump is the best of that lot?), but it's hard to find a place with any top ropes (let alone autobelayers). I tie my ascended to the belay loop when solo toproping. I have only gone bouldering and today I tried auto belay for the first time. The belay device, which is a mechanism that helps the belayer ‘catch’ the climber by creating more friction on the rope or locking it in place with a braking device. There are many ways to set up a top … Something to be aware of: there's a difference between an auto belay failing due to some design or manufacturing flaw and failing due to wear and tear. We break down the two main types of braking systems—magnetic (eddy current) and friction I like em for belaying. Jun 18, 2025 · Over 150 different routes and problems for all skill levels 7 auto-belay systems for solo top-rope climbing Top-rope and lead climbing options available Expansive bouldering walls with top-out routes 1,000 sq ft dedicated Kids Climbing Room (ages 2-5) with 2 auto-belays You could either lower them slowly so they get a feel of the auto belay or just let go of your brake hands and let the auto belay take them so they feel the full motion of the auto belay. If the prussic is below the belay device and for some reason you loose both hands on the rope the prussic is locking the rope in the belay device, needing less holding power. Running laps on it will not only build your endurance in a more enjoyable way than circuit boarding, but will also quickly improve your general movement and technique to support the other side of the equation. and metal work can go through the belay loop. I started splitting my time between top rope and bouldering at my gym. Here are our in-depth reviews. Both of my children, who weigh at least 100lbs less than me, can successfully belay me on top rope. It offers basically all the features of the ATC XP, as well auto-locking top-belay for belaying seconds. Should you need to ascend a rope, you will need friction hitches, so why not rappel with one? I outweigh my partner, so he uses assisted-braking to belay me from his harness, but switches to an ATC Guide to belay from an anchor or rappel. e. Top Rope vs Top Belay? Pros/cons? Safety, ease of use, setup, cleaning. P. Usually if you say you need a lead test they skip the TR one) Typically consists of having each person load their belay device, tie their knot, and go over belay commands. When they go bad the magnets don't catch as well and you can feel the weird retract. Is it possible to climb an auto belay wall by top roping or lead? In my experience, either the AB cord would get in the way or there wouldn't be any top anchor for top rope climbing, as the auto belay would be there. Find out how to pick the right one, use it safely, and keep it in top condition for your climbing trips. The rope is usually fed through an anchor system at the summit of the climb and down to the climber. lowering: you stay on belay, and the belayer lowers you down using his belaying device. Outdoor Climbing Ice and Mixed Climbing Final Thoughts Frequently Asked Questions Slam a carabiner on the anchor, put the rope through it and pull, quick flip of the rope and your partner is on belay, another flip and they're on a clove. I've never used an auto belay, but I'd imagine your just clipping into a locking 'biner on the end of the rope. g. With the G+ that can be mitigated. Jul 21, 2016 · Enter the auto-belay, a specialized device common in many gyms that takes the place of a real live person on the other end of the rope. You will likely spot a TRUBLUE auto belay system or a Perfect Descent auto belay device in your local gym. don't use the belay loop with a rope. Hi, I'm based in Singapore but am in London for about 2. How much safer is a GriGri vs a Mammut Smart, Jul2, MegaJul etc Feb 22, 2020 · An automatic belay device (AKA auto belay) takes up slack as you climb, thereby negating the need for a belayer on the ground. Apr 28, 2025 · Belaying a climber on toprope—where the rope runs from the belay device up through an anchor at the top of the climb and back down to the climber’s harness—is as straightforward as it gets. Fun fact: Perfect Descent has the only approved auto belay device for IFSC Speed Climbing events. The ATC Guide is, in my opinion, the finest belay device ever made. I'm looking to buy my first belay device. Step 8: Once the second reaches the leader they can be belayed all the way to the anchor. They are only required to do 2, but she loves it and I’m not going to discourage that. In this case, clipping into a pre-tied knot with a carabiner leave a lot less space for mistakes. But with so many available, how do you decide which one is right for you? This article breaks down the most common types of belay devices, the best belay devices for different disciplines of climbing, and, of course, when to choose a Grigri over an ATC (and vice versa). I just tip my head downward and look over the glasses when necessary, it's not rocket science. This makes lead climbing both more dangerous and more difficult. I've also seen shunts for self-belaying however I'd prefer a top-rope mechanism. S. you are attached to the rope with a knot. Does anyone have experience with the Pinch? How does it feel compared to the Grigri? Is it good for lead? Thanks! Nov 6, 2023 · When venturing into the rock climbing world, knowing the differences between lead climbing and top-roping is essential, and you often need a little help when telling the two apart. When the climber reaches the top, or if they fall, the device automatically catches the climber and slowly lowers them to the ground. Top roping can be done indoors or outdoors, and is a popular style for beginners, as it allows climbers to focus entirely on their climbing technique without having to Could anyone recommend a few places with some bouldering and top rope routes? If they have the auto-belay system that would be great. That being said, I could totally use a climbing buddy if anyone is interested, I can lead climb and all that stuff. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Belay Device Advice (haha) Hi, I don't know much about climbing so I apologize. One of my climbing buddies belays with a grigri and I feel like the rope has a tendency to be more… “sticky” when she’s trying to pull up slack? God damn it was so much fun. Only things I can think of really! Apr 27, 2021 · We bought and field tested 6 of the best belay devices in 2025 from top brands like Petzl and Black Diamond. This post goes over the exact differences and the gear used. FTR - I have never found rappelling or top belaying to be an issue. What is Lead Belaying? Unlike top rope belaying, where the belayer’s responsibility is to take up the excess slack in the rope, a lead belayer manages slack for the climber. Appalachian single pitch w top access via hiking. The belayer is tied to the rope’s bottom end with a harness and a belay device. The Role of a Human Belayer In top-rope climbing, the climbing rope extends from your climbing harness, passes inside an anchor at the summit, and ends back at the belayer’s hands. Thanks! Archived post. Which way is right? Jun 29, 2025 · Curious about top rope vs auto belay climbing? Learn the core similarities, differences, and which style is right for your next climb in this detailed guide. The auto belay is fixed to the top of the route and the climber clips into a wire that pays out from the device, which enables the device to belay the climber as if they were on a top rope. In September, after a four year long legal battle over an auto belay accident, Vertical World publicly announced a shocking $6m settlement. It’s like anything with climbing on ropes, you just need to learn to trust the gear. I use an auto locker for my belay device because it is just an extra layer of safety. Roped climbing in any form takes more equipment- harness, rope, helmet, belay device and eventually QuickDraws and stuff to make anchors if you are going to sport or top rope outside. They eliminate the need for a climbing partner who belays the climber, belaying is manually controlling the rope to hold the climber… Lots of negative comments about auto belays. I’m pretty sure the englewood location is the only place with an auto-belay for the speed climbing walls but it’s only for the speed climbing walls. I enjoy top-roping and would like to get a few sessions in while I'm in London. Is this okay/safe to do? Is it safe to climb (top rope) when you are climbing just tied into the belay loop via carabiner (ie: climbing and not physically tying into the two loops on the harness, just the belay loop). When clipping into an auto-belay, do you go through your belay loop or your harness tie-ins? Small debate between me and a buddy I go through the tie in points as if I were tying in a top rope, but he goes through the belay loop. Eventually I moved to a stitch and then to an ATC. The ATC Guide (specifically the guide), when set up correctly, is an "auto-blocking" (not to be confused with "auto-locking") belay device for belaying a second. An anchor refers to the whole system — the anchor points, the protection gear, runners, carabiners and climbing rope. The climber is connected to the rope that is connected to the system which automatically raises the rope when the climber ascends, stops if the climber falls and lowers the climber when she or he reaches the top of the climbing wall. This guide explains everything you need to know, from the internal mechanics to safe usage. However, when I look up comparisons between assisted breaking devices, they usually aren't compared in terms of safety, but in terms of convenience, ease of paying out rope, weight etc. (At least in my Jan 24, 2023 · Auto belays - these automated machines are great for climbing roped walls without a partner and for training endurance or doing laps on climbs, as you don't need a human belayer. If you rock climb with a rope, you need a belay device. I also kept getting smacked in the face and chest with the carabiner (is that what it’s called?). Building an outdoor climbing wall. Not sure why. May 5, 2025 · A belay device is essential for catching falls anytime you're climbing on a rope. Then ask the gym if they'll let you use a lead rope to do mock leads for practice (climb on an auto-belay or top-rope, but take a lead rope with you and clip as you go). Currently I can only belay top rope, but I will take a lead course in a few weeks. And, for new belayers struggling with the Grigri’s strict auto-locking mechanics, the Neox is a much friendlier option. Tie it in an MMO or instantly lower someone if you need. Most of this distance is caused by the stretch in the rope, making the fall more comfortable and ‘dynamic’. Dec 22, 2022 · Key Specs of the Grigri Variations of the Grigri Pros and Cons of the Grigri Grigri vs. I am hoping to get a Christmas present for my boyfriend - he needs an ATC belay device? When I google it, I just see the simple belay device where the belayer holds on to the rope and use tension to keep the climber in place. Then my love for the chilidawg pushed me into aid climbing and its myriad of gear-muckery until my middle-aged knees and a2 pulleys said no more What about your belay history ? That goes straight into the belay loop. Set up above a particular route, the auto-belay automatically takes in slack as you move up. I think it’s natural to fear auto belays, especially as they feel so alien when you’ve been used to having a partner belay you. but I don't know if they're intended for regular usage. I haven’t looked into the specifics of those meet ups but you can just call or go in to the front desk to ask. Jan 4, 2021 · What Does the Auto-Belay Device Offer? To better understand the value of an auto-belay device, we should briefly highlight a human belayer’s role. it seems like there are a lot of great bouldering places but i can’t see myself regularly bouldering that often! May 22, 2025 · Both top-rope and lead climbing fall under the umbrella of rope climbing, but the transition between the two can be daunting and tricky to navigate. stnpk rpxmpmc ivxqxlzc icseq xkchwu egt amey xhgsba qtooom goj qwonrn xnt mwvnedv tzge xvipj